Talk:The Sea of Steppes

So first thing we'll do is brainstorm a few ideas. Then I'll paste the template and we can give this a shot. I'm curious to see how well this works.

Sounds good to me. I liked what I saw of the wandering cities. I think having the cities floating could also reconcile the idea of a high tech society and the low tech, struggling elven nomads if they can't get access to the cities. Though, I'm not sure now where I got the idea that they were floating. Did I imagine that or was it actually thrown around?

That would be a good way of segregating their societies, since humans and the elder races tend to keep separate from one another, and in some cases, have engendered a deep acrimony. It wasn't thrown around per se. But it is somewhat implied, in a manner of speaking. It could be power drawn from a wind deity that enables their airborne mobility.

Hmm, that sounds like an interesting idea. A pantheon or a single god based around the sky? I'm thinking a single god. In general, the gods have been waning, as is the case in both Aerholm and Llanterynon. The last vestiges of one being is confined to an area, with still enough power that only the surrounding nomads, and no one else, would be able to harness it. Sky gods are traditional "high" gods in almost every culture known, so this indeed is sensible. Goes doubly so for any steppe paganism; see Tengri-ism, etc. Makes sense to me. Red brought up the... Consideration of other techs enabled by these powers. Does anyone have any ideas of how they could manifest? You mean what sorts of techs could be created by a harnessing the power of a wind god? Yes. There is the floating city/cities, and possibly electricity generation by manipulating wind currents through crude turbines or something like that. Think weaponry, improvements to quality of life, and modes of transportation, etc. Hmm. I'm not sure about the use of electricity since that'd require an understanding of the relationship between electricity and magnetism. But I think that harnessing wind for mechanical energy would be perfectly normal.

NAMING Anyone got a name? Do we have any sort of linguistic foundation for this society? Well, I had pitched Mongolian, Baltic, and Native American influences here, but we're getting pretty divergent. I like the idea of Mongolian names. Feels very fantasy and lends a distinctive feel to the society. Does Llanteyrnon have a specific meaning? Aerholm means home of the wind (which is increasingly ironic as this discussion continues). Llan- is Welsh for "Church." It means Church of Teyrnon. The capital is named Casteyrnon, which means Castle of Teyrnon. My Mongol is not great, but let's see what I can do. ... fuck you Mongol<>English dictionary, I don't want this shit in Cyrillic. That's effort I don't want to expend. "Yegryen Tal" means "The Expanse" in Mongolian, apparently. http://www.bolor-toli.com/ Rolls off the tongue. "Egren Tal" may be a bit more elegant. Or "Yegren Tal," doesn't need to be an exact transliteration. It's Mongol-ish, after all, not the real thing. So this is what they would call their home. Not sure if this is entirely correct, but I think "Tengritsetseg" translates to "Flower of the Sky." Sounds ponderous.Yeah, that's true. Talites? Yegreni? Zugzug. Dabu! Me not that kind of orc.I always liked the idea of naming conventions changing between countries; a name for one might be different for the same country in another, like Germany. Germans call their homeland "Deutschland", French "Allemagne", or Spanish with "Alemania". That's a fantastic point. China calls itself Zhongguo, which means "middle kingdom." To further tie it in with the tribes, Germany has so many names because there were several tribes in the area that served as proto- names for the land, as it wasn't unified. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany#List_of_area_names Oh, that's pretty interesting. And makes a lot of sense given

WEAPONRY/TECHNOLOGY Could simply be highly adapted bows/crossbows, "guided" by rightly-arranged winds and the like.

That's a good fantasy idea. Maybe foils on the projectile adapted to catch winds they know will be there.

Right. "Wind-reading" sights, and arrows that would work with no other bow. If we've got elves on the steppes, then that retains some degree of fundamental elfishness - unless we're going fullbore Our Elves Are Different, anyways.

Gliders should definitely be a thing, too, as a way to cover lots of terrain quickly. Everybody loves gliders, right? Yeah, they'd need to reach the ground somehow. Which also prompts the question: How do they get back up? Hah, that's exactly what I was wondering. Grappling hooks? Flares or musical notes to have ropes lowered to them?

Basket elevators? Ladders and such? I would like to suggest that the city touches ground every so often. I suggested to Red that the Steppe nomads chase rains. They would need to be able to collect reservoirs of water in order to survive. Rain-chasing is an awesome idea for nomadism, I agree. Yeah, I think chasing rains makes a lot of sense. They wouldn't have access to lakes or rivers as typical societies do. At least not as frequently. See below.

ECONOMICS Another thing up for consideration is food. Since space and water is at a premium, I'd imagine they'd develop something like an aeroponics system. Floating gardens vs hanging gardens. Held aloft by some minor cantrips (wonder of the world). Yeah. Verticle growth would help them preserve space, and distributing a nutrient mixture through an aerated mist would preserve water and keep with the wind aesthetic. Baskets, water lines, and fixtures to deliver nutrients to exposed roots. Since a flying city probably wouldn't have an abundance of soil. I think a mix of floating and hanging gardens would be best - it makes for a nice visual aesthetic to have plants spilling down over seemingly every vertical surface. Sort of a "flying forest" vibe, maybe? I like this. Seconded.

Part of a so-called economy would revolve around trading water as a resource. Each household has some access to collections. I imagined fins and stuff to catch rain when they caught up to storms or something like that. What about rain calling rituals? Or would they only chase naturally occurring storms?

Economy at all? Or more socialistic/communal system? I'd think that a floating city that descends occasionally to gather resources would probably have some sort of planned economy. Or at least a sense of collective possession. Makes sense. Resource utilization would be at a premium, between the constant need for water and the limited space for agriculture or harvesting. There'd need to be some way to express wealth, but the material needs for life would probably not be it. Thoughts on external wealth from trade arteries being the representation for expressed wealth? Yes, that definitely makes more sense. Unneeded things, foreign things - things that not everybody would have. Maybe adds a little the faintly scavenger-esque vibe of a civilization that runs off of barely-undestood godmagitech. Junkyard collectives? Could be. If nothing else, lots of knickknacks from the trade routes mixed with scavenged supertech, their own reverse-engineered goods, and the more primitive stuff from fields not directly related to sky god chicanery. I'd imagine that the more advanced technological products would be valued highly to the point of actual proto-corporations / companies attempting to divest as much of their resources in obtaining them. True. Getting Quarian vibes now - adulthood ritual to go out and find an artifact from Below, then bring it back? Maybe it works (ideally it works!), maybe it doesn't. It's the collection that matters. Maybe they can make it work, or put it in something else (So that was a Mass Effect reference). Oof, yeah, I guess some people might not have played Mass Effect.It's still a good idea. I like it.Beneficial to burgeoning economic trade systems, especially in a proxy land that enables other cultures to trade. This is a great tie in to religion. Corporate religion.

Proto-corporations would be an interesting cultural factor. I can see this dichotomy between emerging interests in economic growth vs. old traditions as they relate to a more shamanistic lifestyle. Perhaps with the emerging growth of so-called companies, you could even see minor raiding parties that go out into other nations for resources and perhaps attack their elven neighbors for greater access to prototech. Could also try to work in the standard elves "naturalism" into it, seeing as they probably don't have that sort of mercantilism. No, they wouldn't, likely. Elves are one of the many elder races, who have become insular with the dawning Age of Man. Property and economics seem to be a more foreign concept for them, to me. Perhaps have the residents of this steppe sort of be seen as a reverse "savage", where their numbers are low but technologically dangerous, leading to strained ties between the lands? Yes, that would make sense. Furthermore, it would give some credence to neighboring Aerholm's militarism. They could be like a vanguard against attempts to pass the mountains or cross from the north channels to raid westerly nations. Damn those savages with their pneumatic guns! (They actually fire bacteriophages that infect people with pneumonia. Haaaah.) Clever -_- I'm the best slut. It's true, I do put out. Always an admirable trait. I'd ask about these raiding parties, but probably better to do so down in the military section. You can always raid Charlotte's panties. Not sure if that'd stay a raid; might become an occupying force. Pretty risky. STIs joke goes 'ere.

SOCIAL STRUCTURE Rain Callers (placeholder) - priests and priestesses who directly communicate with the wind god to stir up storm systems and/or deliver rain from already formed clouds. Highly respected and revered. Based on seniority? Thinking of like elder reverance. Bit of shamanistic flavor? Not a bad idea. Reading the ebbs and flows of the wind patterns would definitely be a highly favoured skillset.

Mercentile class - less respected, but holds considerably more power in emerging societal practices?

GEOGRAPHY/CLIMATE So we've got a predominantly arid region with grasslands and such. Seasonal winds stir up monsoons and lead to nomadic societies rather than rooted, agrarian. Is it reasonable to have both rainforest and plains nearby in a geographic region? It does border the sea. Prevailing winds could carry heavy amounts of moisture to certain areas. Lowland basins in particular. Could be marshlands/estuaries instead. Estuaries/deltas would probably make sense. Northern rainforests tend to be nestled near the bases of mountains, collecting the rain run-off from clouds that are stopped by them. The Steppes are flanked by Aerholm and its mountains to the west. I'd written Llanteyrnon as sitting on the windward side of the mountains, which would place the Steppes on the leeward side. Unless they're located along a convergence zone. Not likely. Probably more arid the closer to the mountains you get. Could be more rain to the east. Being on the leeward side of the mountain frequently means you're drier, since the wind carries clouds over from the windward side. Yeah. I'd placed Llanteyrnon on the windward side because it's meant to be fertile farmland.

Perhaps have the steppes be somewhere akin to more of an arid shrubland that a grassland? A la Anzo-Borrego. That was the initial thought; some schism came up when I thought there would be small pockets where there would be something akin to rainforest/shrubland in subtropical basins. Actually, it's oases. Sort of. But the Steppes are this huge, sprawling area. The majority is dry and arid, but we haven't even considered what lies east and south of the plain, so that does make things difficult. Where does it lie in comparison to the equator? Yep. I live right near somewhere where this happens; west of the mountains is a kick in the pants off a westland; east is one of the northernmost deserts in the world. Also some advantage there that estuaries make for exceedingly fertile farmland, so it would create a beneficial trade between the periphery and the cities.

This fucking broken wordwrap. Okay, so the Steppes would probably end halfway between the northerly solstice line and the equator. Past that point, you would probably see more wetlands. I'm thinking in general, we'll go with oases, which cover probably less than 1 or 2% of the the total land area. Plus, these oases could probably create towns / villages and act as landmarks for a route through the area. Silk Road? I think Izdiharim In'timad was meant to be a coastal city amid desert, so that could travel through the region. Izdiharim is meant to be a mercantile civilization. Interesting consideration. I had thought of an oriental-themed land sitting somewhere around this area, either to the south or to the east. See: economy. Steppe nomads were historically great traders, and derived much of their (surprisingly lavish) wealth from it. Very large rich/not-rich divide as a result. Perhaps it doesn't have to be oriental, but something like that of the Native Americans? See: Chaco Canyon. (This belongs in economy discussion)

Elves live in the plains, I think. Elves belong in graveyards; vampires belong in coffins, but not necessarily in graveyards.I'm still right. Zoe's not here yet to dispute that claim. Good, so I'm still right.

CULTURES

GOVERNMENTS Seniority structure, whereby elders provide guidance to their respective clan. Different clan-cities meet together every so often to discuss the fluctuations of god-power and how to fairly share the resultant energies + water resources. See this as a divergence between the rising economic class system, which is increasingly gaining influence over the people and having a larger say in governance. That sounds good to me. Seems like a reasonable result of their living situation. +

DEMOGRAPHICS Need a demonym. Smaller tribes of elves though; pretty small percentage of population, who continue to have a waning influence in the world. 5-10% at most. I think we can probably leave the elf section entirely up to Zoei since she seems to already have a good idea on their culture.

HISTORY

RELIGIONS After all this talk about magitech and a corporate mentality, I started thinking about the possibility of an empirical approach to the gods. Like studies of their relics in (possibly even cynical) attempts to harness their power. Whereas Llanteyrnon looks to imitate and understand them entirely and Aerholm is concerned with what they see as the responsibilities left to them, this society might only look towards understanding the how and why it works so they can leverage it. If it works, worship it? If it doesn't work, into the trash it goes!

An empirical approach to the divine sounds very probable. Drawing most of their resources from the power of a chained god would lead the wandering cities to learn how to best exploit the divine, rather than understand or harmonize. Get your Divine Fertility Pills, made from crushed divine bones. Only $9.99. Better watch out, Vivienne. Entrepreneurs on the hunt. Leads me to wonder if this wind god is physically manifest, or if its energy is trapped in some relic or geographical feature. Existence as an unseen force like gravity or electromagnetism might make sense too. ie trapped rather than physical. Right, it was mused a few nights ago that it could be something infused into the land itself. Although a very physical presence might be good too, with power fading off the further away from it you grew. Makes technomad presence on the borders of the Steppesea increasingly rare - they'd be mostly congregated near the centre. Would make Big Totemy Thing a congregation point and hallowed ground, probably. Literally Zion. This is actually how Llanteyrnon works. The capital was supposedly the actual court of the gods, so its eternal summer influence wanes the further lands get from it. I assume fake prophets would be a problem. In Llanteyrnon, or here? Do you think that people in the Steppes would try to pass off being able to communicate with their god-battery? Why not both? In Llanteyrnon, the rituals involve them reliving the stories of gods, so if a false prophet can impose myth on the world, he effectively becomes a real prophet. How terrifying. I can imagine some Jack the Ripper-type character spreading his/her myth onto him/herself. Yep, something similar was one of the anticipated resulting arcs.

MILITARY Insular military for nomads. Technology suffers the further away it is from the source. Not very effective, unless very traditional/mundane. Warfare turned toward infighting amongst tribes. Competition for resources. And the tech itself - or at least the more involved relic-grade pieces. Probably heavily ambush-oriented, since it'd be bloody as hell to have large standing armies with the elevated tech level. Welcome to modern warfare. Guerilla tactics at large & use of cavalry? I'd probably picture proficiency with ranged weapons. Their elevation makes it advantageous to repel potential invaders from afar, and depending on societal dynamics, they may not have much need for close quarters combat. Depending on how much you want to riff from real world tribal societies, you'd get a mix of ranged skirmishing/ambushing, and a few champions that would engage their opposites on an open field in heavily ritualized engagements. Melee might take its place there - or not. Mingling emerging warfare with old ritual would be good. I can see a common theme between new vs. old world emerging here. All in one horrifying cauldron that the rest of the world does not understand and, frankly, sounds like it *doesn't* want to understand.

Skirmishing styles frequently developed in more wooded areas. It's difficult to develop ambush tactics in wide open plains/steppes unless we're considering largely urban based fighting. And without significant cover, ranged weapons would have a lot of dominance.

I think cavalry would be difficult to keep. Animals in general might be troublesome to care for in a floating city and difficult to transfer to and from the ground. Unless this city is far bigger than I'm imagining. Perhaps primitive aerial-based warfare? Flying horses, or something. Birds? Airborne's a good idea. Mongolians used hawks on the steppes for hunting, so perhaps larger versions of them are trained by the elites? I'm talking like ten foot terrors. Well, we already talked about gliders before, so war-gliders could definitely be a thing. War-gliders and wyverns! Goddamn wyverns. If we're going Mongolian influenced, flying mounted archers would be pretty scary. Flying mounted archers wouldn't just be scary, they'd be goddamn imba-hax-mode. Banned in competition; designers refuse to ever talk about it again. Haha. Nerf them to the ground.

Along the lines of the flechette rounds mentioned before. Flechettes were used as bomber payloads for cheap anti-infantry strafing runs. Just drop pointed stakes from the gliders and allow gravity to accelerate to killing speed. You and your flechettes... They just make so much since when you live up high. But airborne duels would be pretty nifty. Aces! Slingshot AA-guns, yo. Quad-mount AA repeating ballistas, or somesuch. Dakka dakka.

DOMAINS

FOREIGN RELATIONS